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InterviewsPale Divine, Custom Heavy By Chris Barnes Having good riffs does not make a band. Pale Divine is an example of how important chemistry is between band members. On their new doom-filled release, Thunder Perfect Mind on Game Two records, the collaboration between musicians is evident in some stunning jams and incredibly rocking passages. All recalling a 70's-inspired approach to songwriting and recording. Listening to all of this within a traditional doom framework makes for an incredibly interesting listening experience. Their hard work and talent has paid off in spades. Chris Barnes talks with Pale Divine drummer Darin McCloskey. Custom Heavy: I'm going to pose this question to the band like I have no idea who you are or where you came from. Like you guys are a newly formed boy band with no history and a penchant for doom and long jams. How did Pale Divine form and how'd you guys all meet? You guys friends in and out of he band or do harbor secret fantasies of smashing each others faces with hard metal objects? Or both? Darin McCloskey: Well, I guess it all started when a friend of mine introduced me to Greg [Diener - Pale Divine singer/guitarist] back in 1995. I had been jamming with a guitar player trying to come up with some songs in a Trouble kind of vibe and it wasn't really coming together. So I was crying the blues to this friend of mine and he was like, "Hey, my girlfriend's brother plays guitar and he's looking to do something pretty heavy why don't you jam with him?" So I said sure and that was how I met Greg. We sort of hacked around in the beginning a little bit but I think the chemistry was there and I explained to Greg a little about what I wanted to do musically and he was hip to it. So the process of combining ideas and writing songs began to take shape. It just sort of grew from there. The only real problem we've had has been keeping a bass player. Jim Corl, our current bass player, was in a band with Greg prior to Pale Divine. Jim was actually only supposed to step in temporarily to fill in for a few shows and play SHoD I w/ us until we found someone who could commit full time but the three of us got along real well and Jim really dug playing w/ us and felt he could commit to us so he stayed on. Some time later he had to leave for a few months and during that time Larry Stout filled in for him playing a few shows and doing the SHoD II w/ us, but Jim is back again for good hopefully. To answer the last part of your question..yeah, we get along pretty well...there haven't been any major squabbles....yet. Custom Heavy: The new album "Thunder Perfect Mind" is damn good. Now you and Greg have been in the band since '95....are the songs on there a culmination of your career? Or were the songs written specifically for the studio album? Speaking of the album, what are your thoughts on it? Anything you would change if you could? How does the album differ from the "Crimson Tears" demo you guys did? Darin: No, the songs that are on "Thunder Perfect Mind" were written after the material that was on the "Crimson Tears" demo. All the songs that are on "Thunder Perfect Mind" were written expressly for the project to follow the Crimson tears" demo...well, except for the music of "Dark Knight" which actually pre-dates the "Crimson Tears" songs..it was one of the earliest tunes we ever wrote..just never had lyrics for it. As far as my thoughts on the album....I'm very pleased with it..there's a lot of variety in the content, there's no doubt it's a doom record as opposed to say...a "stoner rock" record, but there are things going on that would appeal to fans of stoner as well I think. There's a lot of jamming and some pretty rocking passages as well....I guess that's where the 70's influence really shines. Honestly I don't really care how it's labeled...whether people consider it Doom or Stoner is up to them. We just do what we do and it comes out the way it does. You mentioned in your review that there were production flaws as far as the vocals being barely audible some of the time and the guitar overpowering the drums at certain times as well...I noticed that too but I didn't really think it was a big deal (in fact until you mentioned it I thought it was just me since no one else really seemed to notice it)...but those are some of the things that we'll pay attention to on the next record, but for now obviously what's done is done and overall I think it's pretty minor and shouldn't really take too much away from the listeners enjoyment of the record. How this differs from "Crimson Tears"?...hmm, not too much really just a different set of songs, longer recording, better production, etc. I think the sound on "Crimson Tears" is pretty thin and we'll more than likely be re-recording a few of those songs for the next record. I love that material and would love to hear some of that stuff re-recorded and sounding the way it should've the first time around. Custom Heavy: What is the significance of the album title? Also I gotta say the artwork on the album is great! How did you hook-up with artist Brian Tutlo and could you tell us a bit about the significance of the cover? There's a shitload of detail there...it's kind of Hieronymus Bosch meets Rodger Dean dealie with a flavor all it's own.... Darin:The title "Thunder Perfect Mind" is taken from a very old poem of the same name. In it, it deals with the ideal of divinity manifesting itself in many guises some very obvious and others not so obvious....the poem points out the presence of the divine in all aspects of life...it unites all opposites as viable components of divine power. It speaks to people of all race, religion, creed, etc. My interpretation is that it transcends many peoples religious beliefs and focuses on the spirituality of all living things...something that I personally feel is the very essence of our existence. There is in my opinion only one divine power and that power is WITHIN US ALL. I touch on that in the lyrics to "Pale Divine" and in "Star Child." The artwork on the cover was created by Brian Tutlo who was a friend of mine from High School. We managed to stay in touch over the years, he even played bass for us in the early days before Jim Corl and Jay Purnell....he was so involved in his art though it was difficult for him to find time to do much of anything else let alone playing in a band. Brian's always sort of been our artist...kinda like a fourth member of the band...he holds down the visual aspect. He designed the cross logo that is also on the album as well as on the "Crimson Tears" demo. He's done various things for us over the years including ads, flyers, you name it. When he did the cover he was listening to early recordings of "Amplified", "Pale Divine" and "Judas Wheel" I think the artwork was born from the influence of those three songs. The unfortunate thing is he can be pretty elusive at times and I haven't seen or heard from him in about a year so he hasn't even seen the CD yet. Yeah, you're right on the money w/ the Bosch/Dean comparison that's pretty much what he told me he was going for. Custom Heavy: You teamed with Pentagram's Bobby Liebling on a cover of said band's "20 Buck Spin" as well as a new tune called "Dark Knight". Can you tell us a bit about the collaboration between Liebling? What was the vibe like and what did you take out of the experience? Darin: Well, we were honored to have Bobby lend his services to our music...I think he did an excellent job not only with the lyrics he penned but also his vocal delivery. Watching him sing it in the studio was an awesome experience..actually got chills. He's what I like to call a "one take wonder" a total pro! The vibe working w/ Bobby was great he's a very down to earth guy who just absolutely lives for music and has a wealth of musical knowledge that would rival anyone's I'm sure. To talk to Bobby about music is to set aside at least an hour or so.....he's a walking encyclopedia of 70's rock. Beyond that he's just a genuinely nice person...we're happy to have had that experience w/ him. I've stayed in touch with him since the "Dark Knight" session and he's offered his services to co-produce the next Pale Divine record and it seems pretty likely we'll take him up on it. Custom Heavy: If you could pin it down, where do you guys draw your influences from both musically and lyrically? Darin: Well, there are some rather obvious musical influences to be found on "Thunder Perfect Mind." There's the Sabbath, Trouble, Pentagram, The Obsessed vibe running through most of it I think. Look a little deeper and you'll find the NWOBHM influence on tracks like "The Devil's Mark" and "Star Child." Honestly I'd have to say that just about everything we hear influences us in one way or another...we hope not to make many of those influences too obvious but sometimes it just can't be helped. I don't think there's anything on "Thunder Perfect Mind" that sounds lifted from something else, but there are of course subtleties that'll bring to mind 70's influences like Uriah Heep, Budgie and Leafhound as well as early 80's stuff like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Witchfinder General. Lyrically, it's generally the music that influences that. Lyrics are usually written after the music has been established and they are influenced by whatever images the music bings to mind...I think that's a pretty honest way to do it. Custom Heavy: For the gearheads in the audience, what kind of equipment does Pale Divine use? Darin: Greg uses a Gibson SG (of course) w/ a Peavey head and two 4x12 cabinets an old Marshall from the 70's and a Hi-Watt. Jim uses a Fender precision bass w/ an vintage Ampeg cab. I used a '70's Ludwig kit in the studio (24" kick, 14" rack, 16" floor) w/ a vintage Rogers maple snare that belonged to the studio. Custom Heavy: What you guys listening to now that you really dig? Darin: I've been listening to heavy doses of old King Crimson as well as lot's of old Budgie. Jim's been listening to the new Tool album a lot and Greg has been into some classic Tull stuff and early Rainbow. Custom Heavy: Will Pale Divine tour to support "Thunder Perfect Mind" at all in 2001/2002? What will you guys do next? Darin: God, we would love to tour in support of TPM...I hope we can. At the very least we will be playing some shows very soon in support of it. Right now, we've been working on some new material and we have a couple new ones already; "Sins of the Fallen" and "Martyrdom" as well as two or three that are still untitled. The plan is to begin gathering material for the second full length CD as well as some fresh stuff to perform live. As I mentioned earlier we'll be re-recording some songs from the "Crimson Tears" demo as well as about 6 or 7 brand new ones. We've already confirmed w/ Chris Kozlowski that we'll be recording w/ him again when the time comes. So we're looking forward to that....but also we very much want to play out and spread the word in the mean time. Custom Heavy: Thanks for the interview....any last words, observations or verbal hexes you want to put on anyone? Darin: Nah, no verbal hexes to anyone right now (but that doesn't mean there aren't those who deserve it!!!)....I'd just like to keep it civil and say thanks to you Chris! Custom Heavy is a cool site best of luck with it! ...Check out Custom Heavy Back to Pale Divine Home Back to Interviews |